[Juno]

I'll be blunt, I probably run into this issue a lot more than anyone else. No, I definitely encounter it more often...but anyway, I want to see some thoughts on whether or not it's fair to charge for ideals or if it's considered extortion. And don't you dare preface everything with 'it's just my opinion ;o;'...say it like you mean it and back it up D<.

On Ruairi at least, the standard price for ideals has settled down to 10k each. Why is that? Maybe because it's the smallest possible size for a check, or the smallest amount of gold that isn't a big loss for the average player. I assume, of course, that anyone who has made it to the ideals portion of the quest is capable of making 10k in a rather short period of time.

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However, I have met with several people who have refused to 'pay for me to stand next to an NPC' and I have to say I couldn't agree more! Who in their right mind would charge 10k for something that cost them no trouble at all? It's ever so slightly insulting when people say that =/.

Ideals like Deian, Gordon and Bryce are done for free by me because that's all they involve, standing next to an NPC. Provided I'm in that town anyway, otherwise I don't do them, unless transportation is provided.

Ideals like Manus are a bit different. I ranked heal and rest but I don't think the general populace should pay me for that. I make a point out of staying in Dunbarton as much as possible but I'm not asking for reimbursements for that either. The problem is I'm a weaver and an archer, so I need my dex for my daily weaving and nightly math runs...though the math runs always get canceled if someone needs an ideal. I usually use the skillful title so changing to 'transcended death' for Manus is a -40 dex tradeoff which results in precious materials being wasted if I try to weave for the next 36 minutes (usually less) until I can change my title back. It's also a hefty loss of damage in terms of archery.

Some of you may know that I used to (and sometimes still do) Manus ideals for free. This is because if I wait till late at night, I can avoid having to stick with the title for too long. That worked well when I was just doing 1 or 2 ideals a day, but now I'm doing at least 4 times that...making title management a genuine pain in the neck.

This isn't even starting on the hassle of dealing with all the notes, the friend requests, the time where I can't be in math or chasing sheep with knives, because frankly, I love being able to help someone get through the most annoying quest in the game. It makes my day when someone who's been stuck for days finally gets to go on.

I should also mention that if someone (somehow) can't afford the 10k, I try to offer alternatives. Lately, it's been 25 wool. 1 wool = 400g. Takes about 5 minutes to gather, win/win. When I was ranking handicraft it was firewood. I do my best to avoid bankrupting people...but don't expect me to believe you if you have heavy armor that's flashing black -.-

There are, however, several people who will do ideals for free all the time. If you want to wait for them, be my guest.

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Simon.

I should really ask for much more than 10k to dress up pretty for him :x

On a more serious note, Simon requires a title change just like Manus, although his is only a 20 dex loss for me and that's not too huge a deal. when doing 2 ideals for people i try to do Manus first late at night then Simon and I just deal with the -20 dex. Assuming people come together or space out, it works. When they don't I get a 36 minutes -40 dex dilemma =/.

The real kicker is the bank fees. Let's ignore the space they take up, enough for 40 silks/fabrics or 80 thin yarns or 40 leathers and focus on the fees I have to pay to redeposit them after each ideal unless several people come together which is rare. Keeping a second outfit on me is out of the question especially now that I can't do tailoring jobs with the work-in-process in my temp inventory (part-times, it's what I do). It also cuts into my wool space. I can't store it on a pet either and it's too expensive in repairs to wear all the time, not to mention it's not really my taste.

I used to afk at Simon with a party notice saying to 'Come hither and get thee an ideal' but that's become less of an option for me. After that I tried doing Simon free but eventually the bank costs started adding up along with the other aformentioned problems. On occassion I'll just ask someone to cover the fees if they just need one ideal and I'm not in a tight spot title-wise, but those times are few and far between.

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So, what do you think? Am I being reasonable or am I taking advantage of innocent people's dreams of being shiny and extorting the public or something in between? Anyone else have thoughts to share from either end?

[osayidan]

it's reasonable.
There's no reason not to charge. You have something someone needs, so you have the option to charge for it. If they don't want to, they can find someone else.
I purposefully got rid of my Muro ideal because of people not wanting to pay, it's probably the worst one to have, people yelling at you as soon as a ceo gate opens. Luckily not too many people knew about it, but enough to annoy me. If i'm gonna rush to a moon gate for you, i'm gonna harass your wallet.

[uncle e]

As someone who needs ideals, I definitely have no problem paying. Supply and demand and market forces/economics. Whether its something tangible or not, if there is someone w/ a need, then there is a price to pay. I offer 10k and easily get what i need ... the hard part and time consuming part is finding the person. I don't have alot of free time bc of RL issues, and making 10k is not a problem bc i can sell nao and rebirth things for gps.

I wish you were on Mari ... i need a non-glenis ideal for dunbarton ... haha ... IGN mirokunyorai

[Paladin]

Your ideology is the same as mine :P. Except I don't offer substitutes, it's either pay 10k or find someone else. If I pay 200k for a hat to help you guys, I expect some of the money that was used to pay for it in return.

[EndlessDreams]

I payed for most of my ideals (Except for the very easy ones) for like 10k each when I have like total 80k. Even when guild members I know come all the way to me to help me, I pay them 10k as well. Why?

To me, paying them is a way to show my appreciation to those people who help me on that horrible series ideal quest.

Not to mention people are more likely to come and help you if you pay them 10k.

Money can be regained easily. However, the paladin ability is forever. Paying for ideals is a small price to pay for something so useful.

[Qwanz]

I'd pay 10k even if they don't ask for it.

Agreed with said statements by Paladin and EndlessDreams.

[Bob YoMeowMeow]

it's reasonable to charge people
I mean it's courtesy :X

[kitaek27]

Emain is definitely one of those things where you have to pay.
The requirements are so ridiculous that you would actually have to go through the trouble of having to buy certain types of clothing and premium rebirth just to match the descriptions.

Paying is definitely something that shouldn't be a 'bad thing'.

Some people, like emainideals, actually runs a business off of it, and I think that is EXCELLENt, because he helped me finish ideals much faster.

Tir you only need one...
Dunbarten you only need one...
Bangor is 2, but they're really easy (just type in random names you see and it'll probably work for jennifer, and bryce is any girl).

I can see where you would pay in Tir and Dunbarten too.
But my point is, people who complain about this really don't realize how hard it is to be an ideal, and what kind of service it is to the community to run a business off of it.

[Arietta]

Totally being reasonable. I'm a Simon ideal myself and the storage space is a real hassle. The items weren't cheap either. 10k is definitely a fair amount.

[Paul]

I only charge for Dunbarton, although thats only too randomers. You won't believe how many people on my friend list that i have are people who are trying to get Ideals.

Anyways, 10k is nothing in this game, thats only enough for repotting for me, not enough for a full repot though.