[SotiCoto]

I have quite a few Midi files I've capped from Megadrive (Genesis) games thanks to the Gym2Mid program I have (which converts Gym sound-dumps from the emulator into Midi files).
Problem is.... all these Midi files seem far too complex to convert effectively into Mabi-playable music. The notes are thick and fast, the tracks are numerous and confusing. These are no simple sound-files... and some of the sound-dumps are downright terrible, to be fair.

I'm not rightly sure what to do about it, but it is safe to say my attempts at cutting down the sound files aren't working so well so far...

[Exandriel]

~How to Make Good Music~

I made this tutorial for problems like you're having. Hope it helps.

[SotiCoto]

Originally Posted by Exandriel

~How to Make Good Music~

I made this tutorial for problems like you're having. Hope it helps.

..... I had your tutorial open the WHOLE time.
And I was reading over it the WHOLE time.

Yet not a single one of the midis I use... not a single one of the tracks I want to convert.... has a convenient one-line-tune with chords. I swear I must have some odd tendency to pick complicated music or something.... but even the likes of the Green Hill Zone have proven impractical in translation and the final result truly sub-par. ;_;

I mean... you didn't think I'd somehow neglected to notice your tutorial pasted on the front page of the board, did you?

[Unessential]

One thing that tutorial missed is the setting the default note value. You can insert Lx where x is the note type (eg, 4,8,16,32 and things like 12 for triplets)

This helps reduce the amount of characters significantly in many pieces.
eg. e32e32e32e32e32e32e32 = l32eeeeeee

It's a drag going through pre-made songs and changing it, It's best to start from the end and go backwards. It's not that much of a problem for me because I do it by ear. For me it's just the most convient way of doing it.

Taking tracks from midi files is hard because you have to tweak the songs so they still sound right with 3 voices (complicated ones I mean). It's just less complicated and easier to just start from scratch.

[SotiCoto]

I'm seeing what you're saying.... but that isn't conductive to actually transcribing recognisable music into Mabinogi accurately.

I've thus far managed one, and it sounds truly terrible (and short) compared to a lot of what I hear regularly about the place.... It really does need to have just one tune-line and chords... or it doesn't work.

[Unessential]

Oh, it seems I wasn't clear on what problems you were having before then. If you want layered melodies you can do two. possibly three. Either put the chords between notes, or just use intervals, The chords won't sound as powerful, but it will seem pretty accurate to the casual listener.

I didn't know what you ment by "thick" and all you said was "complex" as well which could have ment anything.

as well, when you said "cutting down" I thought you ment the character length.

However what I said before is true, that's why I said it's sometimes easier to just start from scratch and do it by ear. If you see it in different voices it's sometimes hard to merge them into one. Just close your eyes, and write what you hear. After you can use the midi or the sheets to help out.

Much of the texture in the music adds to the feel, but isn't exactly noticable and isn't needed in a mabi reproduction.

[Nyo]

You're having a quantization problem.

Usually when a person sequences a song, he or she usually inputs each note's length into a readable count.

However, with programs such as the gym-to-midi converter and the MML editor that you used, its tempo setting stays constant while each note's length is cut off whenever it's done.


Let me show you an example.



http://mabinyone.googlepages.com/1.mid


http://mabinyone.googlepages.com/2.mid

These two sound exactly alike. The only difference is that the first one is in Tempo=160 and the second is in Tempo=120.





That's the first problem.


The second problem is that 3ML Editor has a few problems on its own. Its quantization feature is not the best available: if the notes are like the 2nd song in my example, the program might quantize the lengths incorrectly. In addition, during playback, it can't properly read some note lengths correctly (although this issue is not a really big problem; I only found this issue when I tried this song; it has some odd note lengths that makes it desync in the player but not in the game itself).



The solution for this problem is to either find a better converter and a better quantizer, or to sequence the song by hand.


(Semi-off-topic: Mmm, this situation reminds me of the time I tried doing the same thing you did with Sonic 2's Casino Night.)




--------------------------

I'm editing my post instead of making a new one, since I'm sneaky like that.

The midi file he's using, which is converted from a gym file, is something like this. Whenever he tries to convert it to MML, it tends to sound horrible instead of sounding like this.

I used this program instead of 3ML.

[Exandriel]

Originally Posted by Unessential

One thing that tutorial missed is the setting the default note value. You can insert Lx where x is the note type (eg, 4,8,16,32 and things like 12 for triplets)

This helps reduce the amount of characters significantly in many pieces.
eg. e32e32e32e32e32e32e32 = l32eeeeeee

It's a drag going through pre-made songs and changing it, It's best to start from the end and go backwards. It's not that much of a problem for me because I do it by ear. For me it's just the most convient way of doing it.

Taking tracks from midi files is hard because you have to tweak the songs so they still sound right with 3 voices (complicated ones I mean). It's just less complicated and easier to just start from scratch.

Clicking "Optimize and Export" automatically does this for you.

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

..... I had your tutorial open the WHOLE time.
And I was reading over it the WHOLE time.

Yet not a single one of the midis I use... not a single one of the tracks I want to convert.... has a convenient one-line-tune with chords. I swear I must have some odd tendency to pick complicated music or something.... but even the likes of the Green Hill Zone have proven impractical in translation and the final result truly sub-par. ;_;

I mean... you didn't think I'd somehow neglected to notice your tutorial pasted on the front page of the board, did you?

So from what from what you say, it sounds like you have something that looks like this, correct?




If that's the case, and you don't want to have to go through every single note. There's a way you can split it up easily. (Of course you could always find better midis, where this doesn't happen.)

First open up 3ML. Then click Import Midi. Now in the box that comes up enable "1Midi Track -> Multiple MML Tracks." and "Sort Notes on a Seperate Track" Now check off the problem track (Only one at a time.). This will Automatically split all the overlapping notes into seperate tracks in the Editor.

Then go into File and click "Export Midi". That will turn what you just made in the editor into a Midi you can work with in the midi editor. So it should be a lot easier for you with all the tracks split up.

One problem you should look out for is that if one note goes on for a while, and other notes start playing as the original note continues, 3ML will only pick up the original note. Since they overlap, even though they occured at different times. You can click the end of the note to drag it shorter. Or if it occurs throughout the whole track, you can highlight the whole track and drag the end of the highlighted area to make it shorter.

I hope this helps.

I didn't put this in my tutorial because I was trying to cut it down in size. Didn't want it to be too intimidating, and many people don't encounter the problem you're having for a while.

And yeah, the odds are, if you get the midi online, you won't have as big as a problem as you're having now. (though you can still find very complex tracks in some songs).

[Unessential]

Clicking "Optimize and Export" automatically does this for you.

Well, I'm using "Maki mabi sequencer" doesn't work quite like I want it to and sometimes it's better to do it by hand. Maybe it's due to the fact that the sequencer on it's own is really buggy. Meh.

[SotiCoto]

Actually, unless I'm misinterpreting what you're trying to say, Exa.... that isn't the problem I'm having at all.


The problem I'm having is that the midi files I'm trying to convert over seem to have multiple lines of music that are essential to the sound of the piece.... often simultaneously. It isn't just a matter of one musical line and chords to accompany it, but a complex bass-line and more besides.
I can easily cut down the main music line to fit into the 600 unit parameter, but I can't fit down the others into 250 and 150 for the life of me. What I'd ideally need is two 600 lines, rather than 600/250/150. Even my attempt to use the 150 line as an extension of the 250 line (transferring over from one to another after a period of time) worked awkwardly... and sounded all sorts of wrong. v_v;